Impervious Showcase

Mike Carson, Co-Founder of & Impervious, will do a session sharing about the amazing products they have contributed to the HNS community. This includes Beacon Browser and Fingertip, as well as more insights on how to utilize these for even more ease of use in the ecosystem.


(00:01) [Music] [Applause] [Music] god [Music] i don’t have any costume let’s see who’s first i guess steve you can cheat you can you’re here already you could just chat oh my god oh my god even if i had tried i wouldn’t have lost unbelievable cool are there prizes for first chat they should [Music]

(01:12) [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] all right that’s awesome so uh yeah that was an impervious ad they’re uh one of our core sponsors of this handycon and it’s really great so anna’s in previous showcase uh we’ve already had steve here on a panel i think you’ll also be in there’s actually another panel tomorrow right day three you did a panel yesterday um it’s been uh and you’ve been really active in the chats so it’s really been fun to have you here uh supporting and engaging with the community

(01:55) um and uh your co-founder impervious and you you’re also is you got the park i o you know i think you do because i don’t have a you need to make hats for impervious ooh yeah yeah so park io is i think still the bread and bread and butter right like it’s important yeah it’s a great it’s not not for lack of trying but yes so that’s a park domains on on the web 2 um well expired excuse me or parked and expired maybe all the above baby everything in the in the legacy world awesome yeah you guys are really active there at namescon

(02:34) and other events uh in the community there and this really it’s always been a cool thing for me to see you and mike carson uh so active in the handshake community since the early days and uh you know and not just in the domains but also building with impervious and and uh and everything so it’s really great to have you uh here and um matt zipkins here also contributor impervious um everybody knows matt too he’s super active in all in the telegram and always helping people i know people here new people to handshake always thank you for

(03:05) your um answering of their questions helping them get on board into the into this into the community so thanks for that matt um so i think it’s a showcase i know mike carson was uh originally planned to be on this session um but he had um you know i don’t like it you know had a family emergency family emergencies award okay so so um so i think it’s great we get two of you to share today and uh i’m i’m excited to learn too i mean everybody knows about beacon browser and fingertip and i i think it’s a great

(03:40) time to just make sure everybody knows even more and how to use it install it set it up so i i’m really excited for today’s session thank you thank you mike uh so this is gonna be super informal because that’s just how i roll and because it’s been a long day and because uh i’m i don’t know if everybody’s as disappointed as i am that mike’s not here because i enjoy hearing mike talk about handshake way more than i enjoy hearing myself talk about it not to say i mean i i very much enjoy

(04:11) hearing matt talk about it which is why i contem into joining this with me but my part’s gonna be uh pretty well we’ll see i mean i hopefully there will be a lot of questions and if you guys have you know any real like deep technical issues about what zipkin has done as far as core contributions or fingertip or beacon please direct them his way and i’m gonna give more just like brief history of why impervious exists like what the purpose of all this is how we got from kind of gateway model to badass domains

(04:47) to forever domains and then i feel like the handover plug-in fingertip menu bar and beacon all kind of spurred out of each of those developments and so hopefully uh we’ll cover it all as we go and i can’t necessarily uh commit to certain things i am going to talk at least at a high level of things we’ve discussed that might be happening but that’ll be very vague because we’re not very good about locking down like specific dates for things somewhat by design but yeah all right so let me share my screen just so it looks like

(05:22) we’re actually doing something somewhat real so mike doesn’t get upset that we uh totally nailed this in all right uh is it coming up yay all right so what you’re looking at is obviously anybody can go to it it’s not super magical that it’s on our screen right now but you can see the man the myth the legend mike carson who would be here if he could and then a picture of me from a decade ago and then i don’t know how recent ziplin’s picture is and then uh boy buffer who is

(05:56) also here in spirit uh yeah so just really quickly the reason impervious exists like so many things exist in my life is mike had a really good idea and i had the sense to say yes and that’s how a lot of our interactions go so mike has a grand idea he runs it by me for whatever reason i sign off on it and then we’ll immediately just figure out how to actually make it work and so the idea was hey we’re already really invested in this cool project called handshake we i think at the time we are he was already working with matt i think

(06:32) because it was basically pitched to me as hey there’s this amazing guy he’s doing these amazing things we really need to find a way to fund just development in general right because for a lot i mean anybody think crypto knows and they touched on this a couple i don’t know if it was in jj’s panel jj andrews or in the previous one but by design handshake was set up not to be a coin right like not to be just like a cash grab project and really the genesis of the whole notion of impervious was look

(07:05) if this thing ever does take off like whatever that means if if handshake becomes this wild success inevitably there’s going to be some sort of identity crisis for lack of a better word where people that are coming in solely for monetary purposes might try to do some type of like soul grabbing essentially and so wouldn’t it be cool if we created a company whose sole purpose was try to keep it as pure as possible which obviously is somewhat of an oxymoron that’s not really the right term it’s a contradiction that’s a better word

(07:37) because obviously the whole point of a company is to function and survive in order to have to make money but really from the very beginning the entire dna of the company was yes we want to make money so we can stay alive but really we want to make sure that at least somebody is always looking out for handshake whatever that means right not to say that we are the arbiters and that we know best but we did want to at least try to make decisions solely based on like is this kind of in lockstep with the like foundational

(08:07) principles and kind of the whole cyberpunk movement and all those things like that’s the point of this project and the point of the company and yeah like hopefully we make enough money to stay alive and you know and feed our families whatever but really like let’s not be douche bags let’s not do terrible things that other companies do and so that’s the very long-winded description of why this thing exists matt was the first really key reason why it existed and then buffer came along uh some number of months after that but

(08:39) i’m not very good with time especially in the you know pandemic age where days are years so who knows but yeah so that’s how we got here if you go to you can see links at the bottom to let’s scroll down here you can also just go to https impervious there you go it’s even better even well we’ll get to that though because you might not be able to get there yet so hopefully by the time by the end of this talk you will absolutely be able to get to https in previous but for right now before you if you don’t

(09:09) have the requisite if you’re not using beacon or you’re not using fingertip then come to the legacy world feel dirty for a few seconds click on some of these links to actually get up to speed on fingertip and beacon and we’ll get you there in a second anyway all right so just really quickly since we’re still playing this weird history game uh so gateway is not like we’re all in the same space like it gets muddy as far as like organizational structure or whatever but gateway was kind of our first introduction into

(09:40) like how do we bridge these two worlds right so mike and i came from the legacy world actually we met taishan at a namescon right before you know the world shutdown which i think was like a week before mainnet went live and mike had already heard about handshake i had not at all and which is funny looking back because i am way more of just a degenerate piece of now compared to like what i was so my progression as a human being is uh pretty wild when you consider where we were back what was that 2020. anyways we

(10:08) made session we had this idea of like well you know let’s bridge the gap between we’re at this legacy conference we have these cool uh blockchain root zone like what’s the most palatable way to onboard kind of the existing infrastructure onto this and obviously an epp based registry was a pretty obvious way to do it because that’s how all the registrars are already set up to operate so it’s almost plug and play right like you just say hey you don’t really have to change anything about your system you just now plug into

(10:39) this new registry as opposed to plugging into a verisign or a affiliate or new store at the time and you’re off to the races and in the very beginning as you can imagine there wasn’t a huge amount of interest which is why when we launched we launched gateway because we weren’t even convinced we would be able to convince anybody and so gateway essentially is just a fork of the park code base with you know a much prettier skin but behind the scenes a lot of it’s basically the same and somewhat out of necessity because we’re

(11:10) a small team we’re already running that code base for park so it’s fairly simple to just run two versions of the same thing and to our surprise we got also in circa and 101 domains to sign up basically from the very beginning and so we didn’t really necessarily even need gateway gateway is great as a proof of concept but that’s solely what it was there for us if nobody decided to take the leap with us let’s have some way for people to actually buy these or register these second level domains on these

(11:39) handshake tlds so that’s how gateway comes to be uh that was not at all like the kind of the grand vision of how this was going to play out and so not too not as well i don’t have a link up but pretty shortly after that we launched i don’t have the the medium post is basically the same for badass but the original idea like the real hope was that we could have a truly decentralized approach so obviously the real criticism of any of these any of the slds you’ll get in gateway is that they are obviously decentralized at the

(12:14) tld level but there’s still a registry that’s very much centralized so in theory if you know the powers that be tried they could obviously take down that registry and which point yes the tld is still decentralized but these slds are still locked in that registry and so it’s not truly decentralized so the whole idea for badass is let’s truly create the first decentralized domain name where it’s decentralized at the tld level and the sld level and mike can or sorry matt can speak to the specifics but just at a very high

(12:48) level we fork the ens contracts and so the ens contracts are what are managing the actual sld part of the equation and the other cool thing is we implemented it’s what hip double o or triple five whatever five hip five which allows you to actually what is it it’s it’s so you can resolve i mean it’s it’s we pointed to the the ens contract but i don’t know like at a broader level like what the actual title of i don’t have it in front of me but hip five is essentially what where the magic happens

(13:20) as far as being able to actually you point to the enos contracts and have them do the resolution for the slds and keyboard was also pretty cool is yeah part of the badass right yeah he’s in the chat so yes he was also talking after this so he can give a lot more uh information about hn h s which is pretty sexy as well which will allow you to do a similar thing but on other chains beyond just ethereum all right so that’s badass that was the kind of the reason why we did it it’s a great project but again it’s more of a proof

(13:54) of concept matt is there anything you want to add to that or am i free to keep going uh yep keep going all right well at any point yeah yeah you’re doing great at any point feel free to jump in and make this a much better version so that’s not badass i think it badass is when we were on handover right the plugin that’s how it started right okay so because initially the idea was yeah we have the handover plug-in and so because unfortunately no the the full node or even spv like they can’t handle the hip-five part of

(14:29) it like they obviously can resolve the badass tld but they can’t actually handle the slds because they’re on the ethereum chain so handover was handling that resolution initially then again like the badass was very much proof of concept and so forever it was the first one was like all right cool like this is an actual like real project product like let’s because it actually i mean it makes less and mike i think very early on had this i mean this is this idea that he really wanted was how do you actually make a truly forever

(15:00) domain right and so on naturally the tlds forever so it makes a lot of sense that you would have quote unquote forever domains on a forever tld and what’s cool about forever is yes it’s also a fork of ens but it doesn’t have renewal fees because that’s what makes forever forever right like you pay one time you own the domain and now it is yours for the life of the handshake blockchain and ethereum blockchain as long as there’s somebody out there resolving these things it’s yours forever which

(15:32) hopefully will outlast all of us we’ll see but that’s where forever is and unlike you know people like for uh unstoppable and dns like it actually is a true domain name it can be resolved at dns it’s not just a sexy pseudonym for a wallet like it’s a true in fact unstoppable like it’s an actual unstoppable domain that you can have forever and so that is uh how we got to them forever and i think this is also when we we switch from handover to fingertips so i think this is when fingertip was also launched

(16:09) and again i don’t remember the mechanics of like mike or matt can speak to the why we switched over at that point but that is i think the first instance of you know and this is also this buffer was on board by this point i think yeah i mean the the reason that fingertip was launched at this time and not before is because of buffers onboarding right so did hanover handle dane or no um no when last year at handicon when kiba mike carson and myself were talking about badass it was just using hsd with the handover plug-in

(16:49) okay so then yeah so then buffer comes on board we launch fingertip fingertip does have native dane and then when was may beacon i think was december maybe no was it just so yeah it might have been it was later but regardless my beacon is obviously the i would argue that i mean i don’t want to get into like a whole philosophical thing but every time people talk to me about oh you know it’s hard to install this thing or whatever like i hate to break everybody that’s super excited about opera like nobody uses opera and so if

(17:22) we’re talking about like let’s use opera versus let’s use beacon uh it’s the same amount of work like and i’m obviously incredibly biased but i would much rather take a natively implemented dane implementation from basically like the guru of dane at the moment in the world and just in general i have more confidence and anything a buffer’s churning out than i do and pretty much anything else so yeah like i uh i’m not a fan of this like oh it’s a it’s a real hurdle to to install an extension or i mean at that

(17:55) point anything that’s different from what i’m using right this second go for the best option at that point and i’m sorry beacon’s the best option right now at least on ios and android and desktop is coming soon so it’s going to be very quick where i don’t buy into this nonsense about how we need to get these integrations unless we’re talking about chrome like if froome tomorrow decided they actually did want to implement this which is obviously a very big task then yes then you can then i’ll get on

(18:22) board that train because they actually do have a massive market share but anybody else i don’t buy into that conversation and i think i mentioned this during the the previous panel like i also don’t even get caught up on this at all like and i think matt matt and i haven’t talked about this a lot but i think if i was going to rank most important things for adoption cool is number one and number two and number three and pretty much number to 100 because if we could if everybody in the world could resolve handshake today

(18:52) like well i mean yes there are some cool things out there but i’m not able to say like oh this is the reason you should stick around like this is why we’re so much better whereas if we had a lot of cool sites like johnny was mentioning the game in the last session whatever those things are like whatever the killer app or apps are that’s how you actually get where we want to go not necessarily like squibbling over oh does opera support this or disc chrome or is cloud fair going to finally do a result like let’s worry about yeah

(19:21) getting more developers like people like matt people like buffer people like the guys that are showcasing all these cool projects that to me is way more impactful than uh the coin listings and the the browser adoption and like and i i love jahan and i agree that we do need more investment but i am also far more on the like let’s do investment on the development side like let’s focus on creating these really cool tools and like again not to get too old to kumbaya but one of the challenges that we’ve had

(19:54) just as a company is like walking that line right because yes like we would love to have more investment in impervious so we could get more developers and we could do more of the cool ideas that we have but it’s like you only have one soul right so like whenever you sell your soul you don’t really get it back and so it’s just yeah and now i’m starting to ramble which is why i think it’s time i think it’s time for zipkin to take over um yeah and like to your point about uh jihan’s comment which was about like

(20:24) trading domain names and how we need more platforms for that i agree you know we need to decentralize from name base and have more more ways to trade names but the reason those names have value is because of the software that that um that we’re working on right now is because the core software the privacy features the ownership features you know the security features and um the sex appeal of having a url without any dots with your own name in it um and so i’ll you know like it it i went to the i can conference in 2019

(20:56) with boyma and mark tyneway and teshan was there and um and appointment gave a presentation to icann about handshake and there was another presentation there that night about the gnu naming system and we met um our friend martin who’s from germany who works on gns and he told us about how they deal with ssl using a proxy that signed certificates on the fly and we were like oh that’s so cool because we knew about dane and we knew how how how the white paper thinks it’s gonna work but we didn’t really know

(21:23) practically how that was gonna happen um and so you know the back of my head were always this was gonna this is basically vaporware for like the first you know six months of mainnet or whatever i was like you don’t worry we can use a middleman proxy that science certificates on the fly but like i wasn’t working on that i was fixing wallet bugs and um there weren’t many other contributors and so like buffer oh my god like everybody needs to buy that guy lunch i mean i don’t know where he came from or why he’s so smart

(21:48) or why he loves dns so much i wish he could be here tonight but he’s working on the android and the desktop version of beacon browser um so i just want to give him a big a big shout out and a big virtual hug um just for coming up and making let’s dane which is where was called go dana first which is where this started and bringing https to handshake and then i remember talk you know calling buema and mark afterwards i mean like it’s real this thing that we talked about during test net like we have it now and then um

(22:13) seeing fingertip come out and then beacon after that it’s just a game changer i mean it’s making this all real so all you guys who are buying and selling handshake tlds the reason those are worth more than zero is because they can do this thing um and it’s true like what you know people have been talking about uh when when brave when opera you know when safari when firefox whatever and um and and of course we all like to to joke about how ens brags about their browser integrations and their other types of

(22:43) integrations and i’ll have to say how we don’t need the integrations because we have fingertip which works with every browser works at your system level and we don’t really know how these browser integrations are gonna happen i mean the correct way um in my opinion my cypherpunk want to be cyberpunk opinion the correct way to do handshake is to verify proof of work on your computer the entire handshake protocol was designed around hnsd the lite client the reason that jj worked on the urkel tree it’s all over the white

(23:10) paper is the light client and and this is why we don’t have an infuria um there was a story last week when fira got like disconnected from some countries um oh my god we only have five minutes left how did that happen so um because i’m already yeah because that was great i’ll just i’ll just talk about i’ll let me hit the questions real quick and before i get off on a rant about about how great buffers work is when are you gonna develop your own coin we’re not gonna do that it’s too much work

(23:34) it’s a bad idea i don’t know hold on wait a second like it depends on what the coin is there so i will say there is a coin in the like and it’s not a coin it’ll be a token but like the i agree i agree with with i agree with what you’re saying at the same time uh yeah like there is going to be something again i can’t i won’t commit to it but i will say that something is going to happen just because if nothing else i spend wait i i i’m very doxed in this world i am not doxed in the other crypto

(24:05) world i am a degenerate piece of like seriously so there will be a something we’ll just but yeah that’s all we’ll say as far as a coin slash token okay interesting okay is impervious working with brandon and brave not really um i i feel like i’ve had some good tweets with him we know about each other um [Music] i don’t know what else to say about that you know like the last thing we heard from brennan is go ahead and open a pr and i said well you know like we’re not ready yet to be honest and our pr is

(24:32) going to be huge because the correct way to do this is to install h and sd in the browser um and not do what what brave did with um with ens and unstoppable domains which is use a gateway so forget that um so we’ll we’ll see and and and i guarantee brave is looking very closely at opera’s integration and we’ll we’ll we’ll reflect off that when android for fingertip buffer is working on that now um i can tell you that the the next version of fingertip will be chrome based not firefox based

(25:01) the ios version is based on firefox but all browsers on ios are actually webkit they’re all safari buffer has chosen the chrome [Music] he originally didn’t want to use chrome because google already has a monopoly on the internet but then decided against that for the desktop and android versions to use chromium as the new beacon base because um it’s uh just so much faster um are we getting cut off here yet oh i don’t know keep going okay until they pull the plug you you’re right all right we’ll talk about fingertip using

(25:30) inferior rather than an ethereal client totally um my biggest problem with hip five is protocol i helped design is that is that you’re asking users to verify an entire other blockchain and that’s the problem with these decentralized slds i think a lot of you have heard me talk about it um before so you know ideally the client the user runs an ethereum full node that’s the correct way to resolve um hip five domains um i don’t know a whole lot about the ethereum ecosystem my understanding is that ethereum like clients don’t work

(26:00) because their full nodes don’t support it and also ethereum like clients because they have blocks every 10 seconds it’s a lot more work than what for example h sd has to do how many names does if purpose own a whole bunch i’m sure mike carson would love to tell you about that sometime yeah a lot um a lot how much money do we give to any con yeah that’s probably private i don’t know is sanchez not a lot how will fingertips speed up synchronization great a technical question we’ve got a lot of ways to

(26:24) optimize h and sd for example unlike a bitcoin spv wallet a handshake a full node does not need to keep all block headers on disk because you only need the latest block header you only need the urkel tree root you don’t need every single block header to verify transactions throughout the history so we can um encode checkpoints um very easily like we can hard code the hash of block 100 000 and then h sd can just skip the first two years um of the blockchain there’s no no need for it so um there’s lots of of cool things

(26:58) like that um i don’t think i have enough time to talk about buffer’s great ideas about how dns resolution works in beacon now and other ways that we have um to make that faster and less impactful on the network because this is the other thing these light clients consume resources from the network we need full nodes out there to support the lights clients if we have too many like clients without enough full nodes it’s just systems just not going to work so buffer and i have been discussing some ideas to um

(27:25) reduce the impact of like clients reduce the amount of resources that they need from the full nodes um you’re an animal i think you just like cleared the whole cube will there be a wallet integration and become so that’s a really interesting idea and and i keep mentioning these things to mike in our in our weekly stand-up meetings um the fact that we are releasing a browser means that there’s probably an income stream for the company somewhere i mean browsers are all free right nobody pays for chrome how does

(27:55) chrome make so much money oh because of google how does firefox make money well they make money because they release firefox where google is the default search engine google just gives them money for that it’s pretty simple so will there be a wallet integration of big mo i know maybe we can think of something you know that kind of thing is the kind of stuff i pitch to mike every now and then we have a browser maybe we could put some kind of wallet in there maybe there’s a way i’ve heard that as well so clearly it resonated because

(28:19) yeah the things that mike and i talk about clearly means that it like it landed on mike and then so yeah so i agree there’s definitely something there and i would also not to cut you off i would mention if you want to really help impervious like because again i mean i think we’re still mike and i are going to do whatever it takes to keep impervious going in in true impervious fashion but every time you every time anybody registers a forever domain that is directly helping imper like if that is our primary revenue stream as far as

(28:51) just like keeping the lights on and allowing us all to keep doing whatever it is that we want to do because the forever domains like they are for you know forever but we do at least fortunately get the registration fees to then help fund buffer create in this browser and fund zipkin basically doing everything that zipkin does for the handshake community and so yeah like if you want to help us short of uh just like sending buffer hugs and donations definitely register forever domains and we just got our uh our fifth our 500th today which is

(29:25) pretty good that’s amazing it’s a apecoin which is wild to me but not not that well but i mean it launched the goofy board apes thing launched and so of course somebody registered ape coined up forever interesting uh one more just like really random thing this is just again i don’t have direct details but at various points i go in and out of like very passionate about ideas and one idea i did have to try to solve or at least chip away at our big problem is i’ve been thinking of like so the foundation has a grant program like mike

(30:00) and i have kind of discussed and this is me most basically trying to convince mike that we should do something like this i don’t want to say it’s like an entrepreneur in residence because i think a lot of those are but like something in the vein where it’s not it’s something more intense than just a grant but it’s not like you’re a full-on employee it’s more just like hey i have this thing i’m really passionate about almost kind of like an incubator where if you have like really cool use cases

(30:26) for like we obviously somebody asked about the tlds we have and i think somebody also asked like are we going to launch more yes we are going to launch stuff but not just for the sake of launching like a tld right like like i have.web i’m not just gonna launch that web just for the sake of like oh let’s you know let’s put some another tld in the space to get more people to register sub domains off of it like ideally we want to have like really cool services or products or companies ideally surrounding a given tld

(30:56) and so this is again long-winded way of saying if if you have some just like crazy ideas reach out to me mike and recipient never reach out to anybody because we’re very much motivated i mean i don’t know if you weren’t here on day one actually you want to give like a quick plug to your your contest on the fast uh i forgot exactly the basically just a content contest right right yeah make a web make a website put it on handshake so yeah like everything so it’s again for me that is 100 the thing that matters the most whether it’s

(31:28) just more unique content or unique applications services companies whatever and so if you have ideas or if you have i mean make a website so you can win the prize from the contest but then if you have like larger ambitions for things that could be done on a handshake tld that can’t necessarily be done in the legacy world reach out to me reach out to mike like we very much want to help anybody that has any ideas actually make them a reality because that’s what we’re all doing here is trying to actually make this thing

(32:03) something that the world needs as opposed to just like a cool thing that we love yeah yeah for sure and thank you for chilling out the the website contest if you want more information you can check the h fund twitter and the discord is like the next couple of tweets down all the information about all the categories submission requirements and everything is there and even if you don’t get first or second there’s 500 hns consolation prizes so there is something to be won for just about everybody uh so definitely come and join and you know

(32:40) get some more stuff to surf on the d web but we are uh coming to our end we’re going to take a quick break and then at 6 55 uh in just a couple minutes kaiba is going to talk about xn hns and setting up hms tlds on different chains all right so any any last words from you guys thanks for having us i’m sorry mike couldn’t be here yeah no problem thanks for coming guys all right see you guys in the next one [Music] [Applause] [Music] so [Music] kinetic

(33:53) is a blockchain crypto investment firm based in hong kong and puerto rico founded in 2016 they were the first fund in hong kong and one of the earliest in asia with a portfolio of over 220 companies they were seed investors in such projects as ethereum parity and polka dot solana ftx and of course handshake in name base [Music] founder johan chu was an active investor and supporter of the handshake ecosystem over one hundred thousand domains co-founder of d-web foundation co-founder of handycon and sponsor of the handshake house at miami hack week

(34:34) 2022 [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] so [Music] [Applause] [Music] um [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music]